The Compatibility of Islam with other Religions?

[elle]

Unbelievable that you have initiated a heading such as this. It is going to be a very contentious group. I hope that we can discuss this topic sensibly and logically because it is essential if we ever hope to live together in peace and harmony. But first we have to be calm and logical in our analysis. What are your views?

[winston]

Islam is totally incompatible with other religions on the basis that it is the only religion to mandate the subjugation and submission of unbelievers (by warfare if necessary). The Golden Rule present in all other religions i.e. 'Live and let live' is absent from Islam; replaced by the concept of jihad against unbelievers:

"Jihad is holy fighting in Allah's Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite."

[sum]

The Koran makes compatibilty with other religions impossible -
Koran 9:33 He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the Religion of Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, however much the idolaters may be averse.

Koran 24:55 Allah has promised to those of you who believe and do good that He will most certainly make them rulers in the earth as He made rulers those before them, and that He will most certainly establish for them their religion which He has chosen for them, and that He will most certainly, after their fear, give them security in exchange; they shall serve Me, not associating aught with Me; and whoever is ungrateful after this, these it is who are the. transgressors.

Koran 48:27/8 In truth, God fulfilled the vision of His Messenger: You will surely enter the Sacred Mosque, if God wills, in full security; you will have your heads shaved, your hair shortened, and you will have nothing to fear. He knew what you knew not, and He granted, besides this, a near victory. He it is Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion. God is enough for a witness.

Koran 61:9 He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it conqueror of all religion however much idolaters may be averse.

The Koran makes it clear that Islam us not to just sit alongside other religions where there is mutual respect but to dominate and conquer other religions. It could not be more clear. Koran 9:29 also confirms this with fighting, if necessary, to achieve this. How can one change the word of Allah?

sum

[elle]

I agree with both of you with your opinions but as this has been the instruction of Allah, in the Qur'an, it can only be altered if the spiritual leaders of Islam decide to modify Allah's commands, and I would have thought that that is impossible from the teachings of Islam.

[Ex_muslimah]

That is almost impossible as the quran by itself is the VERY reason why we REALLY want Islam to be abolished. If we took out all the hate, the koran would be a slim book.

Another factor is that the koran twists the Torah, Bible and ANY other religions to make it hatred. I also am not sure you are aware of the concept "Taqqiyah" where they are allowed to lie for the sake of their religion.

[elle]

ex-muslimah, yes I am well versed in Taqiyya, Abrogation, and lies that is often used to confuse the uninitiated.
If what you say is true there is only one option open to everyone, accept dhimmitudism or defeat Islam?

[Ex_muslimah]

Exactly my point! So far in the papers, in the UK we have seen Tescos being sued my a muslim employee for handling pork, a muslim cocktail waitress for "revealing clothes" when she perfectly knew about the clothes etc when she applied for the job in the first place.

Islam is corrupt and a hateful thing, we can't change it! the only think is to tell people about the lies they say, (I fell for them myself, but, luckily, I seen the lies myself). Another thing becoming common in the UK is the amount of Muslim men targeting Hindus and Sikhs as a sneaky way of getting them to convert to islam. It is a BIG problem and it has to be dealt with, I myself are liable to be killed as I left islam!

[elle]

ex_muslimah, I admire you for your openness and your courage to speak out against what you see are the wrongs within a faith. Every faith has their faults but some are acceptable in the wider scale of things and others are not. The trouble is that all our politicians are so ignorant about the threat of Islam with their liberalism, misconceived multiculturalism and Political Correctness that they could be leading us to disaster. The only way to spread knowledge is through forums such as this.

[winston]

ex_muslimah, I admire you for your openness and your courage to speak out against what you see are the wrongs within a faith. Every faith has their faults but some are acceptable in the wider scale of things and others are not. The trouble is that all our politicians are so ignorant about the threat of Islam with their liberalism, misconceived multiculturalism and Political Correctness that they could be leading us to disaster. The only way to spread knowledge is through forums such as this.

Yes we all have to come together to fight this evil ideology of hatred before it is too late. Islam seperates the world into Muslims vs Kafir and in order to defeat Islam we must all come together as proud Kafir and do everything we can to make the truth known to our wilfully ignorant politicians and the liberal elite in general.

We need more people to support men like this: http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/R ... BE634E9698

[elle]

winston, knowledge about the real Islam is slowly being disseminated by forums such as this, but I admit it is much too slow and there are too many apologists of Islam who are so ignorant or too liberal or too obsessed with multi-culturalism that we are probably losing the battle. I believe one of the most ignorant nations in the world about Islam is America. Perhaps another one or two more 9/11's may wake them up. How can we inform our politicians? Only more disaster can.

But one thing I have noticed is that there is more open discussion about the threat of Islam today than 3 or 4 years ago.

[SAM]

We are all different. It is that simple...each and every one of us is different. We have always been different, we will always be different. We must learn to accept our differences with patience, tolerance, understanding and love or else we will be in strife forever.

S.A.M

[winston]

We can only hope that the tide of public opinion will turn and people will start making the simple connection between 12500 deadly terrorist attacks since 9/11 and the simple commands of Quran which result in them.

I personally take every opportunity to talk to people about Islam and make them aware of these simple connections. Most people aren't stupid and if they can be given the motivation to read into Islam then they will want to stop it.

[winston]

We are all different. It is that simple...each and every one of us is different. We have always been different, we will always be different. We must learn to accept our differences with patience, tolerance, understanding and love or else we will be in strife forever.

S.A.M

I totally agree with you S.A.M ....if only the Quran agreed with those philosophies we would all be living in a much better world

[Ex_muslimah]

I agree Winston. When Islam was mainly kept to the middle east we were OK in the west, now the immigrants are in our country, look at the state of it now?

It just shows that ONE ideology can bring humanity together, sometimes even amnesty international and those have to wake up properly to islam, yeah it is violating us, but we HAVE to stop them, I have signed the petition in the UK for one law for all, I hope Islam can be ripped off and chucked out, but the saddest thing is the amount off people with PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) the everyday muslims have been brainwashed to such an extent that (well you see how AB is acting) this is what we will have to deal with

[R_not]

I don't think we have a chance unless our 'leaders' wake up, realize the danger we are in and do something about it. For instance, reclassifying islam and taking it out of the 'religion' category. Take away their rights under 'religious freedom' (any religion whose adherents pray for our demise is not a religion).

Now, we know from history that persecution doesn't work because what they do is go underground. And it also can get carried away - an example of that is Bloody Mary's reign of trying to drive out the Catholics. Elizabeth was more wise by just taking away the right of the Catholics to vote when she suggested a resolution to the problem, but even then we cannot take away their rights to vote.

STOP MUSLIM IMMIGRATION NOW!

But, we can do as we do now and hold them accountable for their crimes. We can also stop this cowtowing to their demands. If they want to work in places where it requires a special dress - then so be it. If they want to work where pork is handled - no one is requiring them to eat it - if they want the job, then shut up.

Stop all the frivolous lawsuits just because they have to handle pork, or let passengers drive with alcohol, etc.

AND most importantly - STOP THEIR REQUESTS FOR SEGREGATION! We should be yellosing out loud and clear that is unacceptable. The whole premise is to establish unequality. They want it under the excuse of 'modesty' when in fact they want it because they think we are dirty, as their own women are dirty.

'praying/dressing like a muslim' should also be banned unless they want to accept 'praying/dressing like a dhimmi'. They can chose the religion they want to emulate, but they should be required to do the same, exact thing. And where is the ACLU?!?! (being paid off by the saudis, but I divert) Where is the separation of Church and State?

Their schools should be monitoried - REGULARLY, as their mosques should be regulated. No 'homeland security' money should be going to them as in the past (I don't know if it is still being given to them. That is just downright assinine.

In fact, we should be demanding from them the same stuff they demand from us - when we enter their areas (we should stop that stuff too) we should be able to feel safe as they expect in our areas.

their women on welfare should be monitored much more closely because of polygamy and welfare checks stopped if many women are just pushing out kids for one muslim male. After 'x' amount of kids their welfare checks do not rise, if they are on welfare. And why are able bodied women on welfare to begin with?! This should not be a lifetime thing.

Oh well, some/most items won't be done - I already know that. but segregation, and other things such as their frivolous lawsuits should be just thrown out. period. This is getting ridiculous.

[raghy]

I agree with both of you with your opinions but as this has been the instruction of Allah, in the Qur'an, it can only be altered if the spiritual leaders of Islam decide to modify Allah's commands, and I would have thought that that is impossible from the teachings of Islam.

It is not true. Quran can not be altered or modified.If any spiritual leader of Islam speaks differently to Quran would be termed as heretic. Muslims claim that Quran is unaltered for all these years (I do not know how they explain Uthman's actions of burning all the copies of Quran that differed to the present one). Muslims are not allowed to alter or modify any part of the Quran.

[raghy]

We are all different. It is that simple...each and every one of us is different. We have always been different, we will always be different. We must learn to accept our differences with patience, tolerance, understanding and love or else we will be in strife forever.

S.A.M

We are different to each other SAM. We have a right to be different as long as our differences do not curtail the freedom of others. No body need to tolerate others for their being different. I am not making any mistake; I will never seek tolerance for being different. Islam in general does not tolerate any other faith of people belonging to any other faith.

[John Monash]

We are all different. It is that simple...each and every one of us is different.

I thoroughly agree, and anyone who has widely travelled will confirm my deep conviction, namely:
The similarities between people is greater than their differences.

Furthermore, and I can't remember the female author who wrote words to the effect:
"The similarities between the sexes is greater than the similarities among the sexes"
In other words, a woman may be more mentally attuned to a man than to another woman (and vice versa)

But (and damn that ubiquitous "but"), the subject is about ideology and not personalities, therefore

We must learn to accept our differences ...

Do you agree with Islam's treatment of apostates?
I assume, despite your apparent gnostic leanings, that you are a dyed-in-the-wool Muslim (no pun on sufism).

[SAM]

Do you agree with Islam's treatment of apostates?

No,utterly disagree.There is no such thing as a heretic, no such thing as a heathen, no difference between Kufr and Muslim.

I assume, despite your apparent gnostic leanings, that you are a dyed-in-the-wool Muslim (no pun on sufism).

Sufism in itself is not a religion nor even a cult with a distinct or definite doctrine. No better explanation of Sufism can be given than by saying that any person who has knowledge of both outer and inner life is a Sufi.

In short, Sufism means to know one's true being, to know the purpose of one's life, and to know how to accomplish that purpose. That’s all.

[elle]

We are all different. It is that simple...each and every one of us is different. We have always been different, we will always be different. We must learn to accept our differences with patience, tolerance, understanding and love or else we will be in strife forever.

S.A.M

Sam, I admire you sense of fairness and liberalism.
However if I was at the jaws of HELL, I would say to hell with patience, tolerance, understanding and love because it is not and never be reciprocated. Just read the Koran for proof of this statement.

Qur'an:9:88 "The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause."

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

Sam, if you can find any verses of compassion or understanding or love in the Qur'an regarding non-Muslims I would like for you to point it out to me. Why should it be one sided? You will never, I said never, convert a true Muslim to your compassionate philosophy. You will be the loser with your head on a platter when the showdown comes.

I believe that you are still very innocent about Islam, like most WASP's in America. So I shall be patient. If I saw that I would soon have to give up my belief in MY GOD, my faith, my cultural ways of life or die, then I believe that my God will forgive me for fighting for my rights to the death. Islam's intended end game is to make the world a world of Peace by making the whole world a Dar al Islam. All countries not under Islamic rule is the enemy. I refuse to surrender lying down. You may if you wish to.

"More importantly, perhaps, is the fact that "war" is also descriptive of the relationship between dar al-harb and dar al-islam. Muslims are expected to bring God's word and God's will to all of humanity, by force if absolutely necessary, and attempts by the regions in dar al-harb to resist or fight back must be met with a similar amount of force. While the general condition of conflict between the two may stem from the Islamic mission to convert, specific instances of warfare are believed to be always due to the immoral and disordered nature of dar al-harb regions."

http://atheism.about.com/od/islamicextr ... alharb.htm